It’s a little long, but interesting.
Hat tip TPW.
2007.09.27 by ElfNinosMom
It’s a little long, but interesting.
Hat tip TPW.
Posted in POTUS '08, Wayne Allen Root | 59 Comments
Ring Owner: Thomas Knapp
Site: Blogosphere of the Libertarian Left
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This guy doesn’t sound even vaguely libertarian OR presidential. This is a worst-case scenario for the LP nomination.
I’d rather gouge my eyes out with sticks than see this huckster on the ballot as the LP’s candidate. He’s the worst person that could be chosen to carry the LP banner this go around.
W.A.R. may prove to be the final nail in the LP coffin. It saddens me to see the party of principle that I once loved become the party of opportunism and half-ass rhetoric designed to be nonoffensive to the crypto-fascist right.
This has been in the making for some time.
If W.A.R. is able to put several hundred of his people at the LP convention, he could win the nomination. That the LP has been working hard for the past few years to self-destruct and cloud the libertarian message with jingoistic platitudes and conservative rhetoric is one thing, but by nominating W.A.R. the LP will end up harming the whole libertarian movement.
While many in the LP worry about Ron Paul, it is telling that he, as a big “R” Republican and a conservative, better represents libertarianism than W.A.R.
It is unfortunate that Phillies and Kubby have been unable to excite libertarians, much less attract a larger audience. My hunch is that libertarians are seeking radicalism as opposed to “safe” and “electable” candidates.
Root ain’t the perfect Libertarian, but he sure busts out a hard core Republican bashing message! If you think kicking Republicans out of office up and down the ballot would be a good thing, a Root for President campaign could do that.
More freedom, less government. That’s a good Libertarian message. I think he’s too weak on war issues. I support getting out of Iraq now without preconditions and without delay. But to call Root fascist is wrong. He’s more anti-war than Giulliani, Thompson, and Clinton, and that’s who he’ll probably be running against if he wins the LP nomination.
This is not an endorsement of Root from me. Among the currently announced LP contenders, I’m undecided. I’m still hoping for someone new to emerge.
“I love the smell of vetoes in the morning!” –Root
Nice.
What’s Root’s views on Global Warming?
I’d liked to hear him call it global B.S.! Hopefully he’s not with Al Gore on this one.
Wes, I can’t imagine WAR taking Gore’s side on that one!
I’ve got mixed feelings about the guy. He’s clearly a VERY dynamic speaker who has the potential to make stuff happen. This is a good thing. I was also somewhat pleasantly surprised that his comments on Iraq weren’t nearly as warmongering as I had expected. He’s no Ron Paul on that issue, but he at least sounds better than the rest of the neocon candidates.
OTOH, he comes across as a conceited, rich guy which will certainly lose points with a lot of middle-class (and below) folks. And various commentary I’ve read from others in the past leads me to suspect that much of his self-hype is not backed by reality, that his financial status and entrepreneurial success is nowhere near as rosy as he portrays it. This kind of phoniness would probably be a deal-killer for me and many others.
I’m not a Wayne Root supporter, but I will say that this video was really well done. I will also say that I like Root’s energenic speaking style. Unfortunately, while he does hold a lot of libertarian principles, he just doesn’t go far enough.
The “War on Terror” – which I believe to be a sham that is being used as an excuse to increase government and destroy freedom – is the biggest issue that is facing us right now and Mr. Root doesn’t take a strong enough stand against it.
Wes Benedict, what is the matter with you?
W.A.R. may also be a “dynamic” speaker, but so is every vapid idiot that is a motivational speaker for Amway.
However, I think Root could be very competitive with Romney on the issues of teeth and hair and he could stand up against Rudy for meaningless soundbites and a shallow understanding of issues.
He also has a good understanding of what conservatives want to hear, unless they are against online gambling.
Wes Benedict, more specifically, I personally object to Ron Paul enthusiasts, but further, you seem to have some sort of ongoing argument with Dr. Phillies. Now your skepticism about the scientific evidence of global warming. Are you reactionary & anti-science?
Robert Milnes, seeking to secure the nominations of both the Libertarian Party and the Green Party remains STEADFAST in his BOLD PURSUIT to unite disaffected voters and OVERTHROW the two-party system with his unstoppable enthusiasm for his personal quest to really SHAKE THINGS UP and he’s provided MATHEMATICALLY possible scenarios to DEMONSTRATE THE POSSIBILITY and probabilities and doesn’t take kindly to those who would stray from his vision, a vision above and beyond what any naysayers could even attempt to comprehend, and time will prove, as it always ultimately does, what will be and America and the world will know as it always has been destined to and will in fact again do, know, for, and, and about, the next President of the United States of America.
W.B., right. But is that a yes or a no?
I cannot wait for the day that President Milnes forms this great land into a more perfect union by granting statehood to Afganistan and Canada. And all of our social ills will be solved when all of the black people are shipped back to Africa, where they belong. President Milnes will be good and kind. He will provide those relocated black people with money and a positive eugenics program. He will also treat Native Americans with the respect they deserve by strengthening their culture through a forced eugenics program that will ensure the purity of their race.
All Americans willl see their lifetimes stretched farther than ever imagined, since President Milnes will institute a national cryogenics program. National health care? Ha. Who needs such a plan when you can freeze yourself and wait for further advances in medicine. Best of all, President Milnes will ensure that access will be free for everyone.
This is a true Libertarian vision. One where the government tells you who to mate with, provides you with endless subsidies, and if you get bored with this period in time, then simply freeze yourself on the government dime.
True Libertarians would never support someone from another party. A true Libertarian would only run for the Libertarian nomination and the Green Party nomination, and advocate a Green VP, and advocate a specific VP candidate who supports a Republican. A true Libertarian would follow Mr. Milnes’s vision for a brighter, more racially pure and segregated society where we tell other countries how to govern themselves and provide essential services to all citizens (like cryogenics).
A true libertarian would spend at least half his* day seriously arguing with Milnes and/or making fun of him, since he is a serious contender for both the nomination and the presidency itself.
*women are not true libertarians.
Mr. Milnes, is it true that you would ship blacks to another country and institute eugenics for Native Americans (and have government-supported cryogenics for all), or is Chris just having a little fun at your expense?
A completely different (and serious) question …. what is your stance on stem-cell research? Does anyone know the stance of the other LP candidates (and Ron Paul) on that issue?
Mom, I am not so funny that I could completely fabricate all of that. Check out Mr. Milnes campaign site. Yes, he actually advocates everything I mentioned.
http://www.robertmilnes4president2008.com/
On stem cells, this is all you will find:
“I am a frustrated scientist. Depression has forced me to fail at college and not be able to pursue a scientific career. I was a chemistry major in college. I was trying to decide whether to go into pure science, perhaps research. Or medical school. I have many scientific ideas myself. And as President I would be certain to be actively involved in government scientific projects. Long ago I proposed and tried to create the Foundation for the Positive Application of Scientific and Medical Advances. I could not find 2 or 3 more people for the Board of Directors. It would have tried to help promote & make use of inevitable scientific and technological advances in practical and positive applications. Genetics, stem cell, alternative energy, cryogenics, space program e.g. replacement of the flawed Space Shuttle, etc. A friend of mine (who has an I.Q. of 170) recently remarked after the successful hand transplant, that it is not far from a head transplant. Indeed a head transplant would be far less complicated than a brain transplant. Also regarding cryogenics, we have unfortunately a trend of endanderment & extinction of species due to the effects of the increasing human presence. We should preserve as much of this biological material as possible. It occurred to me that one possible consequence of a government cryogenic program could be to offer the American people the option of preservation of their genetic and reproductive material, including post mortem corpse.”
ElfNinosMom, Chris (Moore) is evidently paraphrasing liberally & sarcastically from my website. I hope he is having fun. I really don’t understand though. If he really is a physicist & libertarian, why is he critical of progressive scientific proposals & programs? Of course I am in favor of stem cell research. I would concentrate on alternatives to embryonic stem cells in order to avoid the ethical/moral issues though. I do not know Ron Paul’s position but would assume in order to be consistent with his anti-abortion position he would be against stem cell research.
pauliecannoli, whoever becomes the LP nominee & listens to me as to strategy could sure make it a close race.
Chris, I guess Paulies would not like that I do not support his campaign in & through the gop, yet propose left-libertarian or green p /paulie Kwiatkowski vp. The former is bad for the LP & a formula for failure. The latter is good for the LP & has a real good chance of success. NEVER AGAIN vote republican.
True. However, I encourage everyone to read Mr. Milnes’s actual words and see if I am that far off.
Are you in favor of government funded stem-cell research?
Chris, Do you think the government is ALL bad & a free market system is (would be) ALL good?
Pretty much, yes (though government does have its proper functions). You will find that a large portion of the people who will be voting for the LP nominee agree with me.
Now answer the question: Do you support government funding for stem-cell research?
Chris, you get points for doing your homework. For actually reading my website. But you lose points by not being flexible. You think a libertarian elected president is going to start changing everything radically? Like Kwiatkowski says she would. & mostly stay home? No, it would have to be a slow process. & selective. Relying on a free market completely wouldn’t work at first. Anyway, to try to answer your question. Some stem cell research is non government funded. But not enough. So yes, a lot of research is government funded & therefore the government has a lot of control over what direction that research goes. The task is to stay on top of it. Try to keep waste down, productivity up & focus on what is best rather than what makes the most profit the quickest.
Thank you for answering my question so quickly, Mr. Milnes.
ElfNinosMom, Thank you for the positive vibes. & You are welcome.
“Relying on a free market completely wouldn’t work at first.”
On what basis do you say so? And what incentive is there for government to keep waste down? Governments are notoriously terrible at keeping waste down because the incentives are perverted. How can they rationally determine “what is best”? Only a market environment can effectively make such decisions involving allocation of scarce resources.
In any case, stem cell research clearly isn’t a proper function of government. The only proper function of government is to protect the natural rights of its citizens, and even that is something they can’t seem to do very well.
Bob,
You write:
“You think a libertarian elected president is going to start changing everything radically?”
Well, a libertarian elected president would probably change a LOT of things radically. He or she wouldn’t really need to do that much to change, say, stem cell research though. The EXISTING position is “no government money for the creation of new embryonic stem cell lines,” — and government funding of stem cell research in general is a small percentage of total funding for both embryonic and non-embryonic stem cell research. It’s a tempest in a teapot.
Tom Knapp
Tom, agreed. An elected libertarian president could change some things radically immediately. But right off with a dem & rep Congress ALL executive legislation would be stopped & ALL Congressional legislation would get veto override. Tempest in a teapot yes, but Chris seemed fixated on my reply. It IS a litmus test issue. Robert Mayer, “Governments are notoriously terrible at…” Granted. But we are talking about a qualitatively different progressive government. “The only proper function of government is to protect the natural rights of its citizens, …” No, there are several other legitimate functions. Many things citizens can’t or won’t do for themselves. & that is the problem isn’t it? Government wouldn’t exist at all if people were reliably self reliant.
Maybe those things citizens (and even non-citizens) won’t do for themselves are things they don’t really care about having done.
There is one thing I wish the federal government would do for me.
Vanish, never to rear its ugly head again.
Right on, Tom B!
It should be clear to all Libertarians that Mr. Milnes is NOT a libertarian.
Have you ever even read the LP platform, Bob? Please point to the section that discussed relocation of black people and “positive” eugenics for native americans. Big government programs such as your “cryogenics program” go against the very principles on which the libertarian philosophy was founded. There are a lot of issues libertarians can disagree about; however, government funded cryogenics is definitely one program EVERY real libertarian would agree is not a proper function of government.
You are damn right that Libertarians apply a litmus test. It is a simple one to pass: you must actually advocate a decrease in the size and scope of government. You do not.
Chris, I had been having the same thoughts. I generally give people the benefit of the doubt and Mr. Milnes seems like a nice enough person, but I’ve yet to read ANYTHING he’s written that differentiates him from any run-of-the-mill leftist. That he continues to criticize Ron Paul and others who espouse solidly libertarian positions that are viewed more favorably by non-libertarians on the right than non-libertarians on the left, makes it apparent that he doesn’t respect the whole spectrum of individual liberties equally.
Chris, by definition I am a left libertarian if you actually believe in the results of the Quiz. Cobb also scored left libertarian. ALL previous LP nominees scored right libertarian. Unfortunately the strategy so far developed calls for a left libertarian/ or green in the p position so as to facilitate cooperation with the greens. We can concede a paulie e.g. K. Kwiatkowski in the vp position. I guarantee leftists are for the most part put off by Ron Paul. & conversely I would venture the guess that Ron Paul has little reason to reach out to them. Quite the contrary. Therefore he is not only not pursuing the strategy, he probably hasn’t any idea about it, doesn’t care and/or is oblivious. Sorry, I would prefer that he not handle this baby.
Chris, I do advocate a decrease in size & scope of government. As an ideal to be strived for by some sort of rational means, not just wishing it away or acting like it or the need for it, isn’t there. That seems to be the libertarian approach. I refer again to Kwiatkowski’s “Are you really ready for a libertarian vp?” The leftist believed & actually tri4d “the withering away of the state” i.e. dictatorship of proletariat>socialism>communism>anarchism. That didn’t work. So I’m proposing a mixture of both + social psychoanalysis. All voluntary. & in the meantime what do you propose we do about endangered/recently extinct species? I propose cryogenic preservation. Then, if we are going to do that, why not offer that for human material?-on a voluntary basis. Yes, I’ve read the libertarian platform & the green equivalent. I’ve read the Bible & Shakespeare too. Can’t say I understood it all or have it memorized… So?
Exactly what mankind did for the first 1 billion years of the Earth’s existence: not a damned thing. I’d let non-government entities do whatever they liked, however. If it upsets you that some species is going extinct, then YOU voluntarily pony up the cash rather than pick my pocket.
If they are put off by Ron Paul’s “right-friendly” libertarian stances of lower taxes, sound money, more parental choice in education, preserving the right to bear arms, etc…, then they are most definitely NOT libertarians. You keep suggesting that Ron Paul is not a “real” libertarian yet somehow these leftists are? I’ve heard Ron speak numerous times and have yet to hear him push any positions that are non-libertarian, with the arguable exception of his immigration policy, which he at least defends using libertarian rationales.
But whose “strategy” is this, yours? And I think your claim that “ALL previous LP nominees scored right libertarian”, while disputable, is largely irrelevant. The libertarian positions are, for the most part, quite clearly defined – either someone is a libertarian or they are not. Therefore, the only differentiation I can see between a “right-libertarian” and a “left-libertarian” is one of prioritizing, either choosing a strategy that emphasizes those positions that appeal more to the right or those that appeal more to the left. Such differences would not affect my decision of whether to support the candidate or not.
Chris, Robert, you are just going to keep dogging me with your Ron Paul illogic, aren’t you? Chris, humans weren’t on Earth the first billion years. So How could they rationally comprehend that they are destroying species like crazy & figure out how to cope with each other’s capitalistic selfishness & greed, then? Can you say you fully understand the lib & green platforms, the Bible & Shakespeare & have it all memorized? I don’t think so. I don’t trust nongovernment entities to take care of everything needed. For one thing they are usually broke after profit/beaurocracy skim off. & they don’t have access to super large lump sums of liquid cash and/or diverse resources the government does. I’ll be at the convention. I’ve already said I will stop by on my way to the National Forest in Ca. Robert, you seem to be fairly well on top of the right/left libertarian concepts. Check further into the Quiz & interpretation of results. Also check into a book called Radical Man. I forget the author. An evaluation of the confluence of radical left & ultra right is there. There is about 25%overlap. e.g. when asked, about 25% of leftists identified with the right also(mostly libertarianism).
I only said Ron Paul is not a real libertarian because he is on the gop ballot, not the libertarian ballot.
Mr. Milnes, thank you for clearing up your use of the “real libertarian” phrase. To you, it’s all about the party label which is something of no concern to me whatsoever. I wish there were no such thing as political parties and then voters would have to actually evaluate the candidates individually without relying on their preconceived ideas of the parties they represent.
Wow. Robert Milnes saounds like a green completely and a libertarian very little. This is not based on my own ideas of the label, but the LP platform and the dictionary definition. Personally, I’m more of a Constitutional Libertarian (or is it Libertarian Constitutionalist?) so Ron Paul works for me stressin. But I understand and respect the left-libertarain positions of folks like Paulie and others and wow, I don’t think Milnes even understands what libertarianism is even for left leaners.
Stem cell research? I fully support it but cannot justify it being publicly funded. I don’t know any libertarian that can. It is not a proper government function and could be stopped immediately by any president.
Did he ever answer the question about shipping blacks to Africa? I know many black people who not only have never been to Africa but that don’t want to go there, or they would.
I think parties have some worth. They give people a general idea of the political ideologies of those that will assuredly fill support roles of elected officials. Of course, with a smaller government that only focused on rights protection there would be less need to worry about the support roles, but until a libertarian is president I think parties serve that function. I don’t really know how that translates to Ron Paul’s candidacy because he differs from the GOP leadership, but I’d assume he would hire supporters rather than those slimy Republican leaders that are out to attack him because they know he won’t need them and as president could rub them out of their cushy positions within the GOP.
Wow! You are SOOOO not a Libertarian. Do you not realize that the LP platform calls for a radical capitalist society where individuals voluntarily associate exactly because of selfishness and greed?
Are you not even familiar with the FUNDAMENTAL principles on which libertarianism are founded, specifically the following quote from Jefferson concerning rightful liberty?:
“Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others.”
Please explain how you find free access to cryogenics to be a right that requires limits on my freedom to keep the fruits of my labor.
Root’s #1 mistake with the libertarian technorati was receiving his introduction from Eric Dondero.
Also, it’s weak that he has been a libertarian for like a week and already is running for president. If he was an enthusiastic supporter of the LP for at least one election cycle and then ran for pres the next time around, even with his flaws, he would deserve respect.
He’s not a bad guy. Obviously, his foreign policy is where most of his problems lie. And that’s a tough pill to swallow. But 95% of his rhetoric is solid, if not radical enough.
Worst part of the mostly good video… RE: gambling: “Let’s tax it, let’s regulate it, let’s use it to fund homeland security and education.”
Better: “Let’s legalize it, not tax it, not regulate it, and abolish the Department of Homeland Security and the Department of Education.”
G.E. Smith, I haven’t heard from Dondero recently on the blogosphere. But he was critical of Ron Paul which I appreciated. He at least asked the question,” Will Ron Paul support the eventual GOP nominee?.”
Robert Milnes, do you know what Dondero’s primary reason is for not supporting Ron Paul? It’s because Ron Paul is NOT SUPPORTING THE WAR ON TERROR AND THE WAR IN IRAQ!
So, how do you appreciate that?
Robert Mayer, & there was some sort of employer/employee scene between them. I don’t agree with Dondero on much. But at least he is in the GOP & RLC & is consistent & supports his party OF CHOICE. Not Ron Paul & everybody just gives him a pass. Well, if he will not endorse the eventual GOP nominee, what is he doing in that party?
Mr. Milnes, I can’t speak for Ron Paul, but I suspect he chose the GOP as his vehicle out of practicality, not because he intends to support them or their choice of candidates no matter what. It sounds like you’re saying his adherence to principle over party loyalty is a bad thing. I don’t get it.
I believe Wayne Allyn Root first declared he was a libertarian on the Bill Maher Show sometime in 1999. Wonder if he is close to finnishing his book about becoming a libertarian . Also wonder about the TV show about running for President is doing?
“Did he ever answer the question about shipping blacks to Africa? I know many black people who not only have never been to Africa but that don’t want to go there, or they would.”
Mr. Milnes, please answer this. If this were to happen, would I have to be cut into pieces and shipped back to Ireland, Germany, and Belgium? It would be tremendously painful. But, I don’t want to get in the way of your delusions. I just want to know what kind of police state I will be exiled from.
Thanks.
Bob Milnes is delusional. His views are neither Green nor Libertarian.
I don’t even know Karen Kwiatkowski, although I have read that she is no longer interested in running for VP.
Robert Mayer, according to what you wrote, Ron Paul chose practicality over party loyalty. On the other hand, I chose the LP out of all 3 & will keep to all three by endorsing the e3ventual nominee. I don’t have to worry about who that will be because my party affiliation is very congruent with my beliefs. Ron Paul practicality also shows with his reluctance to be part of the third party situation because of all the ballot access difficulties. However he is content to support third parties & ballot access for same from behind his Congressional desk.
Nick, it is on my website. I never said ship anyone anywhere. It is a proposal for emigration subsidy. To eventually result in population parity with Native Americans. To be negotiated by a new comprehensive treaty. It occurred to me that a possible consequence could be a colateral method of dealing with AIDS/AIDS orphans, African & Carribean poverty, political & economic strife etc.
Pauliecannoli, Like I said, you have changed your tune evidently. You have me confused. Why are you neglecting your website? If you want to know more about KK, she has archives at lewrockwell.com.
Robert, all I saw on your website were some questions about electing someone on drugs or medical issues. I saw nothing about emigration subsidy, but since you mention it, I don’t know any libertarians that support subsidies especially for the reason of emigration. At least you admitted to being more Green than anything else. I don’t know many progressives that would support libertarians though, since it seems that is what you are suggesting. I have a question, though regarding your statement on the site. You said you wanted a woman libertarian to join you. Why does gender matter? If it is just because you were specifically targeting KK, why not just say that is your goal? Have you considered that she doesn’t want to run for VP with you because she, like the rest of us, think you’re insane? I really don’t like saying this about someone I haven’t met, but your words have convinced me you are not right in the head.
Nick, On my domain site you click the link to my campaign site. Most of my campaign stuff is there.
Milnes: If you think Ron Paul would endorse Giuliani, McCain, or Romney, you are insane. Wait. You’re insane, either way, but you’re just fucking stupid if you think that will happen.
I’m the one who has said all along that Ron Paul had “no chance.” Now I think he has a chance. Maybe 1 in a million, but still a chance.
There is a much better chance that Bob Milnes will be busted for stalking Karen Kwiatkowski in the next three weeks than he would receive even one delegate at the Green or Libertarian Party conventions.
Robertmilnes,
Where and when have I changed my tune? Cite some examples please.
I’ve already read many of Karen’s articles. I’ve also read that she is no longer interested in running.
I don’t know her personally, and I have no idea why you refer to her and me as if we were somehow one and the same.
G. E. Smith,
You are completely correct.
However, I would not rule out Ron Paul endorsing, say, Fred Thompson as a lesser evil than Hillary. I think he may very well not, but I would certainly not rule it out, either.
For starters, he endorsed Bush in 2000 AND 2004.
G.E. Smith, candidates are supposed to endorse the eventual nominee. Ron Paul gets to duck this with a pass I guess. Paulie, I have not been following KK’s recent writings. Could you refer me to where she states she is no longer interested? -when I say Paulie KK I mean she is evidently a “Paulie” i.e. a Ron Paul supporter. Sorry you took that not as intended. I put up my domain site with m/g/p & f/l/vp in order to match myself as p & to keep the promise of 50% women. This was long before KK expressed interest in vp.
Can’t remember where I read that now.
As for Ron Paul, my view is nuanced. See the archives – I’ve offered praise on some issues, and expressed my differences as well.